Saturday, April 2, 2011

Various Election Discussions on Facebook

Thank god for the Election. I now have countless outlets to procrastinate from the English Literature final projects I'm dreading like the first day of High School. I've taken to the interwebs and been letting loose on party ideologues, which IMO are whats wrong with politic in this country. People are all too willing to uncritically accept the positions of  their respective parties, and seem to only read articles from news sources which reinforce their pre-held beliefs. They rarely even ask other's their opinions, as apparently they seem to have all the answers. And even when they don't, they won't admit that they lack knowledge of a particular area - fake it 'till you make it I guess.
Not to put myself on a pedestal, but I for one read both the Globe and Mail and National Post when I read up on the election. I think having balance to your own view is important. I feel that the opposition parties feel it is enough to rip on Harper's past, present, and future policies, and don't spend nearly enough time supporting their own policies with their own arguments (for example, the economics that support's Layton's 5%+ Credit Card Interest Rate Cap would be interesting to see....)
An NDP-er friend of mine recently showed me this article about how the correlation between lower corporate tax rates and economic growth is spurious, and that the only country with lower corporate tax rates than ours is Ireland, and we all know how that is going... I'm now forced to reconsider my macroecon 101 assumption that less is more in the case of corporate tax. I feel that there is not enough give and take of positions and arguments like this going on. Some of the political discussions I've been in have just been recreations of the Talking Head debates on CBC where the clearly biased panelist talks AT the other panelist, rather than with them. This sort of discussion is so pointless and unproductive that it's incredible CBC even invites these panelists to talk. On the other hand, CBC's Power and Politics with Evan Soloman is a great show that makes more explicit its attempt to provide critical insights into the days events.

Here are some of the arguments I've made on Facebook with fellow politically aware people.

  • This article is full of all sorts of gems "Harper’s team may not be very conservative by most standards (U.S. Tea Party activists wouldn’t let them in their front yard)" uh..... yes they would and they have: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SpecialEvent7/20051213/elxn_harper_speech_text_051214/ - The text from a speech made by Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, to a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing U.S. think tank.
    Wednesday at 11:55am · 
  • John Doe 1 : As soon as this "not so conservative" leader came to power, BAM - no more $ for women's advocacy groups -http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2006/10/04/tory-funding.html. Then he proceeded to try to privatize as much as he possibly could and push through deregulation and corporate tax rates at an unprecedented rate. No that conservative?? Harper is Benjamin Netanyahu's next top model; we are in deep trouble if the Conservatives get in.
    Wednesday at 12:05pm · 

  • ...
    I like how we're having a whole election over whether the corporate tax rate should be 15% or 18%. Regular Canadians don't care, this is something for ideologues to decry either way.
    And that being in 'contempt of parliament' is a vote made by clearly partisan judges who themselves gain from a guilty verdict.
    And sure, women's advocacy groups are important, but this is targeted funding for a specific group, and during hard economic times, SOMETHING has got to get cut, and its usually the smaller programs, whether its for disabled children, or whatever. Should Womens Advocacy groups be small? No, they shouldnt


    John Doe

    This is an excellent read http://rabble.ca/news/2011/01/ten-reasons-oppose-harper-candidate-your-riding

    rabble.ca
    The following is designed not to insult or ridicule the Harper Conservatives -- it is to show accurately and honestly why the Tories shouldn't run or represent Canada. Stephen Harper promised to "change the face of Canada" so drastically we wouldn't recognize it. He has succeeded and Canadians mus

    4 hours ago ·  ·  · Share

      • Nick Harper 
        Its also an excellent piece of the NDP thinly disguised as 'the truth'
        My favourite parts are when the article rips on Harper for creating a deficit, and then planning to cut the deficit. Also when they try to make a correlation between Canada getting a Security Council seat and Harper's domestic governance. Blaming Harper in particular for that is a gross misrepresentation of the facts since Canada has been increasingly seen around the world more a as country that is complicit with US foreign policy rather than taking its more independent thru leading peacekeeping as it had before. And this change is generally dated to 9/11 and the decision to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq, two wars that occurred under whose leadership? Not Harpers.

        2 hours ago ·  ·  1 person
      • JD 2 Canada didn't enter the Iraq war, the Chretien Liberals opposed it.
        about an hour ago · 

      • Nick Harper Even though we didn't end up going, the Liberals didn't oppose it either. They said they would only go in if the UN sanctioned the war - a sneaky halfway measure neither refuting the Americans nor agreeing to the invasion. And in the end Chretien expressed his moral support for the invasion.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
        about an hour ago · 
      • JD @ -  Canada was acting as it should have, going along side with the UN. The UN found no WMDs after an exhaustive search. Since there was no evidence, Canada and so many other countries did not go. Regardless of Liberal party attitudes, we did no enter the war. Also, Stephen Harper supported the US war in Iraq when he was Leader of the Alliance at the time. If Harper was PM in 2002/2003, he would have sent Canadian troops to Iraq!
        about an hour ago · 

      • Nick Harper 
        Canada didn't take a strong stance either way. It waffled between the two positions and failed to exercise any sort of leadership on the issue regardless of what anyones preferred policy outcome would have been. Its no virtue of ours that we didn't end up going to war in Iraq, and we should only modestly congratulate ourselves for not being sucked into that mess.
        Its easy to say with perfect 20/20 hindsight that the war in Iraq was the decision. But the decisions that were being made at the time on the basis of incomplete information (as most decisions are) was supported by evidence that they thought was true. Bush's NSA advisor was at a Canada-US security conference none too long ago and fittingly named the whole thing a 'swing and a miss'. Harper's position at that time was more credible than it looks now, and I'd be concerned too if even today Harper was still saying the Iraq war was a good idea. Thankfully, he isn't : http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081002/election2008_debate_iraq_081002/20081003?no_ads&s_name=election2008

        about an hour ago · 

      • Nick Harper the wrong decision*
        about an hour ago · 
      • JD 2 -  So Harper would have went to war and then felt bad about it later? Wow, I'm so glad for that. I am sure the 100,000+ dead Iraqi civilians would have been glad as well.
        about an hour ago · 

      • Nick Harper And then we would have been in the exact same position the Americans are in. Except in absolute terms, Canada is not taken seriously as an international broker anymore anyways, as the article we're discussing indicates. My point is that its unfair to scapegoat Harper as the cause of this, since Canada's decline in international leadership began well before him during the Liberal stances during the 2001-2003 period, and arguably even earlier during the gutting of the Canadian Forces.
        about an hour ago · 
      • JD 2
        David White Ok, yes I agree that our International status has been on the decline for years now. In your opinion, what is Harper doing to slow or reverse that decline?
        37 minutes ago · 

      • Nick Harper 
        Thats a good question, and I think Canada is too divided to even be an international player right now. Foreign Policy issues has not been even near a main focus of any Canadian election in a long time. Canadian politics have been inwardly focuses for a while now, so governments havent had a strong mandate to take strong foreign policy orientations radically different from the past. Hence the waffling in 2003.
        Before, we were a leader of the middle powers, but now we're a small player in the Big Powers camp. Canada is no longer a distinct player on the West's team in the eyes of the rest of the world, in contrast to Canada's role as the Peacekeeping nation that we had earlier. Voting for the extra seats on the UN Security council is basically decided by countries outside the West, so currying favour in these is more important than doing the same within the West.
        So, UN influence for Canada would mean pursuing a strong election-based mandate to take a radically new foreign policy stance that would make us popular again in the Developing World/South.
        However, the Centre-Left has strongly made its point known that it will not support military spending to have a military force capable of either tactical deployment or peacekeeping missions. And the Centre-Right will not support a radical increase in ODA spending given the concerns over the economy in the current recessionary period. We're really stuck at the moment.
        All that to say is Harper hasn't done much. But that's not to say he should be blamed as the sole source of everything that is wrong with Canada's international position.
        What's would you like to see happen in terms of Canada's international position? Has any party addressed this in their platforms thus far? I know Harper want's to close negotiations on FTAs with India and the EU, but these are hardly grand foreign policy moves.

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